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Reverend
15th November 2005, 07:49
Lets hear some more public opinion on this topic please. It affects ALL of us.

Posted on 'another website':
It appears today that PunkBuster has gone completely off the deep end now and are going crazy handing out Hardware Bans.

I have ALOT to say on this topic, but I do not want to flood the entire homepage so I will try to keep it short.

For those who don't know what a Hardware Ban is: PunkBuster uses this method of banning because their software sucks so much that it can't detect all the hacks out there, so their response, instead of fixing their software to better detects hacks, they simply turn to Hardware Banning users. They collect serial numbers from the Hardware in your computer such as your Hard Drive, your Network Card, and possibly other devices in your computer. If any of your hardware gets banned, you are permanently unable to play on PunkBuster servers, on any game that uses the PB software.

I hope Evenbalance is reading this carefully:
We have retained a silicon valley lawyer to put together a CLASS ACTION lawsuit versus EvenBalance. What grounds for the lawsuit? PunkBuster, being the only anti-cheat software available for the games they support, has a monopoly on their business. Their software is distributed with an INVALID End-User License Agreement and they have an INVALID Privacy policy. The PunkBuster EULA states that PB is purely optional, which, if you ask anyone who plays any game that uses PB, they will tell you that that is a completely FALSE statement. PunkBuster is REQUIRED to use the game on probably close to 98% of game servers. We all know that multiplayer games consist of 2 parts, a client and a server, and it can be construed to believe that if someone wants to play any of these games, they really have no choice except to play on PunkBuster enabled servers, whereas the simple fact is that there really is no alternative to PB servers.

Some may say, but you can play on Non-PB servers, but that is an INVALID argument. You can not REALLY play the game, as it was meant to be played on a Non-PB server.

Even if PunkBuster's EULA was valid, no where in the EULA does it say 'Thou shalt not cheat.'. They DO say that you can't interfere with PunkBuster doing it's job, but it is clear to me today that EvenBalance is Hardware Banning PC's that have not been used to interfere with PB in anyway. I have had 5 reports today that gamers using *****bot, and only *****bot have been given Hardware Bans. As the lead developer and primary coder of *****bot I can assure you that *****bot in no way interfaces, interacts, or interferes with PB. Any Third-Party analysis of my code will prove me right. Quite Simply, not only is PunkBuster hurting our Business by Hardware Banning users, but they also peirce the corporate veil by following these improper practices. This means that the owners and shareholders of PunkBuster software CAN be held liable for damages charged to EvenBalance.

Why is Hardware Banning wrong? Quite Simply, whereas a Computer does not have willpower, a Computer or a Computer component CANNOT violate any form of contract. Only a person can violate a contract. And even if a person violates the PB EULA, the chances are VERY HIGH that they violated it on a computer not belonging to them. The large majority of PunkBuster users are under the age of 18 and use a PC that is owned by a parent, a guardian, a school, or library, or at an internet cafe. I do not know very many minors who own their own PC. By Hardware Banning a peice of equipment in a computer PunkBuster damages the possible resale potentional of said hardware. Do you think any gamer is going to buy any of my 4 hardware banned hard drives? I think not. This means that PunkBuster is causing injury to people or organizations that do not even use PunkBuster software.

Regarding EvenBalance's Privacy policy, it's name is HIGHLY misleading. If read, you will realize that it is actually a NO-Privacy policy. EvenBalance openly acknowledges that your privacy is worthless compared with the benefits of allowing them to scan you entire hard drive and computer memory. I assume that they probably do not abuse this, however, do you think it's worth it to let them have access to, and potentially share with a 3rd Party, all of the information contained on your computer? I think that Privacy is priceless and to make a statement like they do, is totally ignorant.

We will be posting a public petition to stop EvenBalance from their unethical and improper hardware banning practice and to force EvenBalance to correct their Privacy Policy and End-User License Agreement. I hope that all gamers will digitally sign this petition (or in the case of a minor, will have their parent digitally sign), cheaters and anti-cheaters alike. We ALL have to deal with PunkBuster and truthfully, PunkBuster itself is ruining the game for all of us. I cannot count how many times I've heard people complain about being FORCED to use PunkBuster, even legit players and server administrators.

I am not crying about Anti-Cheat software here. Believe it or not, I am an advocate of Anti-Cheat software for fairplay, but EvenBalance lies when they say they are spearheading the effort, because their software is the absolute WORST anti-cheat software I know of.

Aside from America's Army, I play a number of other games that are poorly protected by PunkBuster. I would like to honestly know why I cannot play without hacks on a game that I PAID for a license to play. Even if I choose to cheat on my own server for instance, I can understand if PunkBuster would give a 5 min kick for a detected hack, but to ban me when trying to play legit on another game server, simply because the PC that I am using contains hardware that was previously used to 'interfere' with PB is wrong. You cannot Identify a person by the serial numbers of the hard drive they are using. Many people may share a single PC and it is unfair to the other users of the PC (especially on a public computer system such as at a school, library, or internet cafe). It is especially unfair to the actual Hardware Owner. If they try to sell their equipment later, the Buyer has a valid complaint if they intend to play games with it and finds out that their new equipment can not be used to play their favorite game because it contains hardware banned parts.

By the way, don't try to get unbanned. They simply will not listen to you. EvenBalance seems close minded to the possibility that someone other than the banned gamer might actually use that hardware at a later time.

EvenBalance, you need to STOP the practice of hardware banning. It is wrongful, unfair, and unethical. It's been said before, when it comes to these games we play, EvenBalance plays the role of Cop, Commisioner, Judge, Jury, and D.A.. Absoluete Power corrupts, and yes, EvenBalance is very corrupt. I do not think our lawyers and I will have any difficulty proving any of these points in a court of law, and I believe that any judge in this land would be sympathetic with the rights of the people and not a corrupted corporation like EvenBalance.

I think I have said everything that I wanted to say about this subject, but I'm sure that I must have left out another point here or there. If you have been hardware banned by EvenBalance or know someone who has, or if you are not a gamer, but own a computer or hardware that has been banned, please sign our petition (which will be coming soon) that we will send to EvenBalance to make them STOP their hardware banning practice.

Thank You.

$4#@A%
15th November 2005, 11:18
Good Luck wish u all the best. Also just a reminder bout the issues with process guard and how u werent alowed 2 play if that program was installed and it would result in Blocked O/S privies.

babo
15th November 2005, 12:55
Totally agree please post the patition site after so i can get everyone on gods green earth to sign it. I would also like to say that unfortunately no one makes these types of statements or takes stands against other anti-cheat software like some used in UT2004 which renders ppls cd-keys useless. As $4#@A% stated also these companies are blocking software in which ppl use for other reasons other than bypassing a dum game anti-cheat. Remind anyone of microsoft and compeditors here anyone!

ihateacid
15th November 2005, 15:25
well, maybe i'll sign with a petition if such ones come

[DD]dualz
15th November 2005, 20:10
Totally agree please post the patition site after so i can get everyone on gods green earth to sign it. I would also like to say that unfortunately no one makes these types of statements or takes stands against other anti-cheat software like some used in UT2004 which renders ppls cd-keys useless. As $4#@A% stated also these companies are blocking software in which ppl use for other reasons other than bypassing a dum game anti-cheat. Remind anyone of microsoft and compeditors here anyone!

Well the thing is, UTAN and Wormbo are private orginization/Person. They are not in contract by Epic Games to make anti-cheats. So it's simply a mod that bans certian cd-keys, the server admin chooses weither or not to install that mod.

gil
15th November 2005, 20:50
Way to go Reverend. Some points there are very true and valid.

Citizin1337
21st November 2005, 17:48
This article is very true, I plan on signing the petition, I mean I don't want to buy pc hardware off ebay, and come home to play AA and find out that im banned and why? cause my new 7800 is banned.

There anti-cheat software is corrupt sadly enough.

DelfinoM
21st November 2005, 23:05
The article is funny, but at the bottom line, it's the server admins choice to run pb, noone is forcing the admins to turn on pb except we the cheaters, well if some people werent jackasses and used server crashers and other extremely bad cheats then there probably wouldnt be as much pb servers. The challenge of beating hardware bans is a good thing, it gets rid of those 8 year olds who think they are cool for using server crashers and leaves only the true cheaters behind.

gil
21st November 2005, 23:14
The article is funny, but at the bottom line, it's the server admins choice to run pb, noone is forcing the admins to turn on pb except we the cheaters, well if some people werent jackasses and used server crashers and other extremely bad cheats then there probably wouldnt be as much pb servers.
I miss the AGA team.
Those days were the best.

farmerchum
26th November 2005, 16:41
woah... to much writting XD

gil
26th November 2005, 16:43
Moved to the new PB forum :)

copraper
26th November 2005, 16:59
I have read here http://www.elitecoders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8871 that pb hands hwbans and guidbans you, when you use stealth injector in bf2. so, if i would use the norecoil dll for 2.5 or the gte public dll, when detected in conjunction with stealth injector for aao, would this hwban me? btw, it's a good idea with the pb discussion forums.

gil
26th November 2005, 17:01
No, you don't get HW ban when you inject thing.
Native hacks wont give you HWban unless it has a SSblocker or cleaner and gets detected.

no recoil dll in AA should be safe.

Ping_pong
27th November 2005, 03:33
No, you don't get HW ban when you inject thing.
Native hacks wont give you HWban unless it has a SSblocker or cleaner and gets detected.

no recoil dll in AA should be safe.

Don't be to sure bout that, PB is being moronic and banning for the stupidiest things. Everything you download and use is at your own risk.

This is just to inform so you don't post stupid flame post like: AMG im HW banned.. :/

Too bad PB also reads this forum, hope to see a PB hack on this site that totally f*cks up all pb files that allows you to play with ALL HACKS and that screws up the HW banning system. F*ck PB and his crew!

No1uKnow
27th November 2005, 05:34
any dll released for AAO 2.5 wont be detected anytime soon, maybe next year


and yes im serious, you'll see

gil
27th November 2005, 20:16
Don't be to sure bout that, PB is being moronic and banning for the stupidiest things. Everything you download and use is at your own risk.

This is just to inform so you don't post stupid flame post like: AMG im HW banned.. :/

Too bad PB also reads this forum, hope to see a PB hack on this site that totally f*cks up all pb files that allows you to play with ALL HACKS and that screws up the HW banning system. F*ck PB and his crew!
I am sure.

The-X™
28th November 2005, 16:11
any dll released for AAO 2.5 wont be detected anytime soon, maybe next year

if thats correct why,someone dont make a HW Spoofer (Public)dll(C++),it would help a lot of ppl,that is banned by using a loading method(GUI Controller),that even the game use to load things.i think Pb dont played fair on that one.i see a lot of ppl saying that if a HW Spoofer become public its detected in few days...So...all the dll´s are secure for a good time?

Ping_pong
28th November 2005, 16:23
if thats correct why,someone dont make a HW Spoofer (Public)dll(C++),it would help a lot of ppl,that is banned by using a loading method(GUI Controller),that even the game use to load things.i think Pb dont played fair on that one.i see a lot of ppl saying that if a HW Spoofer become public its detected in few days...So...all the dll´s are secure for a good time?

Why make new hacks all the time? There are enough releases with good functions. The only problem is PB, so why not releasing hacked PB's? Tamimengo already had some ideas to COMPLETELY turn off PB and play on PB enabled servers.

Maybe i'm to used at the old PB hack times, but who knows, maybe there is someone that pick up gonzo's PB hack updates it and makes it public. (Yes, he released the source in one of his PB_hack)

Greetz Ping_Pong

The-X™
28th November 2005, 18:46
im not talking about Pb Hacked files,im talking about HW Spoofer to ppl,that is/or want to protect themself about PB HW Bans(Thoose new bans,where ppl dont screw PB Files/or PB Scans,but is HW Banned!!!)...(Taurine & Arkan)HW Spoofer,helped a lot of ppl for a long time...was a very good tool for ppl Hw banned on the community.And..far i can remeber every PB Hacked Files/Manglers/SS Blockers that came in publics versions,lead more ppl to HW Bans.i dont see "PUBLIC"PB Hackeds files,as a valid solution...private ones is another story...

stupidwhore
1st December 2005, 11:25
I think America's army and other games should have a VAC system like Steam does. IT doesn't ban yoru computer, It bans the account for ever. Which i think is very fair. When this petition is out, i'll sign it and post it on my forums and have people there sign it as well. We have goto put a end to this crap..

If you even guy aPC that is banned and email PB, They'll just say its banned and nothing you can do but buy new parts. Im unsure who Stewart is at PB but he's an ass (i might of spelt the name wrong :P)

anyways lets post the link to the petition1!!

Ping_pong
1st December 2005, 13:58
I think America's army and other games should have a VAC system like Steam does. IT doesn't ban yoru computer, It bans the account for ever. Which i think is very fair. When this petition is out, i'll sign it and post it on my forums and have people there sign it as well. We have goto put a end to this crap..


PB has a banning system that they only ban your account, but they see it's hard to win the fight so they give HW-bans instead of account bans.

About the PB-hack: If the hacks doesn't contain HW-info they can't HW-ban you :devious:

gil
1st December 2005, 18:39
I think America's army and other games should have a VAC system like Steam does. IT doesn't ban yoru computer, It bans the account for ever. Which i think is very fair. When this petition is out, i'll sign it and post it on my forums and have people there sign it as well. We have goto put a end to this crap..

PB has GUID ban, which is an account ban ;)

langefrans
1st December 2005, 20:59
Very true what the laywer said.
Especially this:

You cannot Identify a person by the serial numbers of the hard drive they are using. Many people may share a single PC and it is unfair to the other users of the PC (especially on a public computer system such as at a school, library, or internet cafe). It is especially unfair to the actual Hardware Owner. If they try to sell their equipment later, the Buyer has a valid complaint if they intend to play games with it and finds out that their new equipment can not be used to play their favorite game because it contains hardware banned parts.

what happened to me, hope pb will stop giving hwbans.

The-X™
4th December 2005, 15:15
The problem is not just the hw bans,we have other problem,PB is reading drives & data(memory) that he was not supposed to read,i agree whit reverend on this one.They dont respect any privacy on our computers.(Why Should we respect them!).

mcMike
6th December 2005, 08:50
PB has GUID ban, which is an account ban ;)

No it's not.
Accounts are in gamespy-server in the firstplace not in EA or morelikely not even near EB.
If you get new CD-KEY you can retrieve your old account and use it without probs.

gil
6th December 2005, 22:32
No it's not.
Accounts are in gamespy-server in the firstplace not in EA or morelikely not even near EB.
If you get new CD-KEY you can retrieve your old account and use it without probs.
I was referring to AA actually.
AA doesnt have a CD-Key, therefore it's an account ban.

InSaNe_J
7th December 2005, 14:20
When and where will the petition be found?

StateOfTheMind
17th December 2005, 07:25
Sadly I don't believe you will be able to sign a petition. Considering that PB is hired by AA, I truly think the AC's don't care about PB. They aren't get Hardware banned, so I think PB is being successful in what they came to do. They want hackers/cheaters to be banned or for them to leave. As far as I can tell, not many hacks are around anymore, as well as I have watched quiet a few people leave the AA hacking scene.


If it were possible to sue pb/sign a petition to make them stop, I would gladly join in, but I don't believe it will work sadly enough.

gil
17th December 2005, 15:24
Sadly I don't believe you will be able to sign a petition. Considering that PB is hired by AA, I truly think the AC's don't care about PB. They aren't get Hardware banned, so I think PB is being successful in what they came to do. They want hackers/cheaters to be banned or for them to leave. As far as I can tell, not many hacks are around anymore, as well as I have watched quiet a few people leave the AA hacking scene.


If it were possible to sue pb/sign a petition to make them stop, I would gladly join in, but I don't believe it will work sadly enough.
You're wrong.
More and more people are moving to the dark side.
Hacking PB itself is the next hot thing, you'll see.

The good old PB hacks will pop up again soon.

InSaNe_J
18th December 2005, 01:35
Hehe, the dark side ...

So will there be a petition comin out or what? On the note thing on PB it said it was posted on another site, does any1 know what that site was?

gil
18th December 2005, 20:08
Hehe, the dark side ...

So will there be a petition comin out or what? On the note thing on PB it said it was posted on another site, does any1 know what that site was?
No, there wont be.
And I think I know what site it is and it's not allowed to mention it here.


Beware.

Cody_7
31st December 2005, 15:25
Why can't you mention the site?

And as far as my opinion goes with PB - i think they overstep thier bounds. WAY overstep. I hope i never get hardware banned because it scares me to death. It's completley unfair to ban hardware that someone else might use someday. Does PB ban certain hardware serials, or combinations of hardware?

But, one thing no one mentioned is, the other things that PB can kick you for. PB is "anti-cheating" software, correct? Well, i've played on servers for RS3: Raven Shield that have kicked me for having the wrong player name, i've been kicked for having certain keys bound to radio commands, i've even been kicked for my internet option set to T1 under settings. Now, if it's anti-cheat software, what gives them the right to allow admins to kick you for things like this?

[oC]pingu
1st January 2006, 11:11
PB is spyware.

Sudden Death
1st January 2006, 17:47
How is it? lol

I think its fair that PB r handing out hardware bans, when u install the game u accept 2 the PB terms and conditions.. In those conditions which u all agreed 2 u agreed not 2 cheat. So if u decide 2 cheat, its ur fault :P

2FACETANNER
2nd January 2006, 01:27
Um... When I installed the game I bypassed the "next" button so in fact I downloaded PB and AA without agreeing with the EULA. :) (I got serious problems)

Garda2002
8th January 2006, 04:02
so ok i agreed the EULA they sayd if im gonna hack PB the gonna HW ban me.. i only used no1unknown's no recoil and dont know how the heck the caught me hacking ??
You were logged using a cheat that tried to prevent detection by PB. The method used is considered by us to interfere with the way PB is designed to work, therefore violating our EULA.

If you were not cheating, then someone was using your computer and was caught.

Either way, your hardware is now permanently banned from all PB servers. You may still play on non-PB servers as our bans only apply to servers with PunkBuster enabled. w00t w00t ??

niels
11th January 2006, 17:06
i got this message too , for BF2 to be exactly , i didnt had any hacks running , and removed all the detected ones before playing online (always do that)