Ideal system of government

[Reckless Youth]

First, I would like to say I am doing research for a paper I am writing for my philosophy class, so PLEASE do not close this because of the "Will this thread later turn into a spam and flamefest?" guide line...innocent until proven guilty, right? Most of us are mature enough to have a decent debate with out it turning into "flaming."

The question at hand is: In your ideal society, which form of government (if any) would you desire most, and why?

Here are the choices briefly described:

Fascism: Complete government control. Believes strongly in imperialism and conformity. Ex: 1930s Germany (******)

Republic: People elect representatives. Ex: USA

Direct Democracy: People have complete control. Ex: Switzerland

Communism: Government controlled business and economy Ex: Cuba

Dictatorship: Ruled by one person. Ex: Iraq

Anarchy: Total freedom, right to exercise your own free will. Ex: end of Spanish revolution / small Swedish towns

(sorry for being very brief but i gotta go)

[luck777jojo]

I have to say.... (in theory) communism is the best system.... what cuba has is not true communism, don't get that mixed up.
Cuba has a socialist dictatorship, it is not quite communism, true communism was never really reached by any nation.
True communism is when the people work and do what is best for the whole and thus each proffits from that in his own way as well, it is therefore, as I said, only practical in theory.

The idea is perfect unfortunatelly it is not built on a perfect base, as human nature is flawed.

Next best thing would have to be socialism, Canada and quite a few european countries such as Denmark are probably the closest thing you will see to socialism nowadays, in socialist the government is elected like in a capitalist(or as you called it, republican) system, and there is private enterprise as well, but interwoven are also government controlled bodies, such as the helthcare system, education system, etc.

[CRACKIT]

where's democrat
im in the usa i would rather be a canadian citizen
usa is screwed up bad

[Felix]

I have to say.... (in theory) communism is the best system.... what cuba has is not true communism, don't get that mixed up.
Cuba has a socialist dictatorship, it is not quite communism, true communism was never really reached by any nation.
True communism is when the people work and do what is best for the whole and thus each proffits from that in his own way as well, it is therefore, as I said, only practical in theory.

The idea is perfect unfortunatelly it is not built on a perfect base, as human nature is flawed.
^^
The theory of communism is great, its just the way people put it into affect that doesnt work out too good.

[GrumpySpyGuy]

Gorbachev believed in Communism however saw it as failure in Russia's backward society. Karl Marx, the father of communism, even said it himself, that in a country that lacked industry (Ie:Russia) Communism would fail, and as we see.. it did. However, that doesn't mean it principles are wrong. Lenin tried to implement it before the rise of capitalism, as Marx prophecized. However Russia had a totalitarian ruler, controlling both religion and daily life.. It was Stalin himself that said "No man, No Problem". And In saying that, lets not forget the millions, yes millions he killed to keep himself in power. Totalitarian strips all rights of speech press etc... and thus is why Russia's Communist later Totalitarian and then back to communist society ulitmately failed. Let that be the norm of communism. As we can see in George Orwell's Animal Farm, satire of communist society and Russian history, all animals are equal... except more are more equal than others. Just as Luck said.. Showing the greed and flaws of human, or in this case animal nature. In short.. My government would not involve communism.

Next!

Anarchy... Oh please.. Get that shit out of there.

Next!

Direct Democracy... I would hate to admit but people are stupid.. or atleast some of them. Just as here in America Rappers/Singers/Artists/ and Television stations are urging people to vote. There in lies the fault of a direct democracy. The attempt to get people who have no Idea what they are doing or voting for to vote. MTV has attempted to get new voters by showing the canidates and their issues, however though I don't watch MTV I hear it did a very bad job at addressing the issues of the canidates.PERFECT! Now we have voters who are being mislead voting for possibly the wrong canidate. Yes, now let's get PDIDDY to encourage voters by printing "Vote or Die" on shirts. Ok Pdiddy, Tell me what are the domestic issues of Bush and then how does Kerry's possible administration differ? Don't lead the missinformed to vote.. In Short... Direct Democracy would not be a part of my government.

Before I go any further in discussing the other issues.. how many people would be under this government? A group of 15 people? a metropolis? a country? These are important issues to address because then.. If these were small societies I might take back my current stand on Communism. I will discuss the next govs. in the next post.

[Canuck]

I would have to agree with communism although as humans (our nature) there is no way to implement it.

[GrumpySpyGuy]

Next!

Facism... Nearly the same as Stalin's Totalitarianism.. Different in fact of public/private property. That is all I think they differed in, if anyone knows more please let me in. So luckily I can keep this type of gov short. Under Mussolini and ******, this system ultimately failed. Thus, My government would not be Facism.

This comes to the end.
I would chose a Democratic-Republic. In which citizens elect representatives who then represent them in a congress, judiciary, and executive branch in which the executive branch hold a virutal representation of all of the society's citizen. Now this is where you all "But Grumpy, Isn't that like America's current system of government?" and to this I retort YES!. Yes it is.. I am quite pleased with our current system however, I am displeased with our representatives and corruption from within. This system of Checks and Balances is the easiest way to keep a strong central government while keeping a local,state, and federal systems. In short, if the corruption could be avoided (Can't be, as stated before by both me and Hobbes [Tell me someone knows who he is] people are naturally corrupt, the democratic republic is the BEST type of government..


Oh by the way this was all IN MY OPINION.

[luck777jojo]

Next!

Facism... Nearly the same as Stalin's Totalitarianism.. Different in fact of public/private property. That is all I think they differed in, if anyone knows more please let me in. So luckily I can keep this type of gov short. Under Mussolini and ******, this system ultimately failed. Thus, My government would not be Facism.

not flaming or anything but.... you're mixing up a few things, even though Stalin's Totalitarian governement was somewhat close to Fasism, there is 1 very huge difference, Facism promoted that 1 race is better then all the other, while Stalin's system promoted that the people on top were "more equal than others" it also made it quite clear that any person from any ethnic background could become one of those people on top.

[Virtuosofriend]

The best communism system is the one China used under Mao Tse Tung's headship.Best system @ all is of course democracy the most ancient goverment system of all times.

[vietfrost]

I live in the USA and it isn't too bad here so i choose Republic :)

[AznDeathDragon]

I go with Republic all the way

[Felix]

First, I would like to say I am doing research for a paper I am writing for my philosophy class, so PLEASE do not close this because of the "Will this thread later turn into a spam and flamefest?" guide line...innocent until proven guilty, right? Most of us are mature enough to have a decent debate with out it turning into "flaming."
You would think so.. wouldnt you? Since your doing a paper, i'll simply delete the spam posts rather than closing the thread.

[unfunf]

I voted for Republic because it works in reality and in theory.

Communism only works in theory. Marx was smart but he got a few things wrong (war does not lead to revolution, and revolution is not by the masses but by small concentrated groups). Communism would be great if people were not, well, like they are.

[GrumpySpyGuy]

not flaming or anything but.... you're mixing up a few things, even though Stalin's Totalitarian governement was somewhat close to Fasism, there is 1 very huge difference, Facism promoted that 1 race is better then all the other, while Stalin's system promoted that the people on top were "more equal than others" it also made it quite clear that any person from any ethnic background could become one of those people on top.

Luck, Thank you for pointing out my mistake.. When I was speaking about Communism and then Cmparing it to Facism there was where my fault was. I should have said instead of Facism.. I believe I mean Socialism. There is little difference between socialism and communism was what I believed I wanted to say.. But thank you for catching that. Yes, I was wrong.

[[oC]pingu]

I choose any form of Socialism. Probably Communism.

[GrumpySpyGuy]

Come on peeps: In your ideal society, which form of government (if any) would you desire most, and why?

Back it up with something.. I explained why I wouldn't choose them. Help him out.

[snowcatxx87]

@ Lucks First Post:

Communism fails in reality due to the fact that people will start to abuse the system. Say I give you food and you fix my car. Someone could go and get things but give nothing in return.

I live in Canada and we have a great system; however, the west seems to get alienated sometimes, which needs to get fixed.

[luck777jojo]

not flaming or anything but.... you're mixing up a few things, even though Stalin's Totalitarian governement was somewhat close to Fasism, there is 1 very huge difference, Facism promoted that 1 race is better then all the other, while Stalin's system promoted that the people on top were "more equal than others" it also made it quite clear that any person from any ethnic background could become one of those people on top.

Luck, Thank you for pointing out my mistake.. When I was speaking about Communism and then Cmparing it to Facism there was where my fault was. I should have said instead of Facism.. I believe I mean Socialism. There is little difference between socialism and communism was what I believed I wanted to say.. But thank you for catching that. Yes, I was wrong.



no worries just pointing that out, glad you didn't get all pissy @ me, lately I don't even know what can come of a small remark like that, n/e ways thnx for keeping this whole thread mature ;)

[cRAZyDESi]

whatever canada has is right lol

[iNCQRiT]

Republican, but there should be 1 thing implented. The problem I see with voting, is that people are ignorant, and vote for how they find the president/representative attractive/cool/charming and not for the things he wants to do with the country. (think about Arnold Swarzenegger in California).
I would like to implent that anyone can vote, but only after they have been informed about every party/president and where he/she stands for. This would not only help for USA election, but also for elections in the Netherlands (where you vote for a party. There are a limited amount of chairs in the political discussion room, so the amount of votes a party gets, decides how much representitives your party may send to the political discussion room to discuss about political subjects . Also the biggest party may decide who the president will be, altough he is not the 'boss' of the country. This was a very limited explanation of how democracy works in the Netherlands. :tired: )
I find it already better then replublic, but I don't know what I should vote, because this democracy is not republican and certainly not direct democracy. :ninja:


Dictatorship... with me in charge of course...

but since thats not likely i voted Republic since i want Actors to run my country...
lol, who wouldn't want (an) importdrinker as a dictator :smoke:

Edited 5 times..... Yes I know there is a "Preview Changes" button lol

[GrumpySpyGuy]

We have a house of representatives and Senate.. each with thier corresponding rules..

The house's attendence is directly linked to how many people a state has (Proportional).
Senate chooses 2 people from each state.
This makes up our Congress.

And.. For those who live in Cali (me) Arnold is actually doing his job.. and well.

[iNCQRiT]

The house's attendence is directly linked to how many people a state has (Proportional).
Senate chooses 2 people from each state.
This makes up our Congress.

Yes, but the president == boss right? Or is it the senate?



And.. For those who live in Cali (me) Arnold is actually doing his job.. and well. It looks to me he has not been chosen because of his arguments, altough I would not know how he is in reality. I only judge by the limited TV Footage about it, here in the Netherlands. He might be the best you've had in years :)

[Macpunk]

so i say Rational Anarchy...Rationaal meaning no raping no murdering no pillaging and plundering. Jsut stuff like that...otherwise live the good life.

[iNCQRiT]

so i say Rational Anarchy...Rationaal meaning no raping no murdering no pillaging and plundering. Jsut stuff like that...otherwise live the good life.
That will not work, because when there is noone that rules over a country, people willt try to be the first (mafia and such), which will then terrorize everyone. Not to mention not having common things like infrastructure, clean water, sewers, electricity etc etc :rolleyes:

[vietfrost]

We have a house of representatives and Senate.. each with thier corresponding rules..

The house's attendence is directly linked to how many people a state has (Proportional).
Senate chooses 2 people from each state.
This makes up our Congress.

And.. For those who live in Cali (me) Arnold is actually doing his job.. and well.


Hey you live in California? Me too! What city?

Arnold has done a ton of things in California. Some i agree with, others i don't. Oh well, he hasn't screwed California yet =D

[snowcatxx87]

And one more thing to add. This guy hands in his report or does a speech or whatever, and the professor/teacher asked him where he got this poll from. He says, oh its an online gamer cheat/hacking/reverse engineering site. That would go down ever so well, don't you think?

[Reckles Youth]

Guys, thanks so much for all the feedback, this really helps a lot. Had I not been banned i would have been giving my thoughts on all the issues as well.

snow - My paper is going deeper than simply taking a survey from random people and giving a report on the feedback i get. I am comparing different groups of people and comparing how their view differ from each others...and my thoughts of why this is(very obvious in most cases). First i took 20 college kids and asked this question, surprisingly liberal. Then 20 people who work in office buildings downtown San Diego, as i thought very Conservative(4 fascists out of 20!) Then 20 random whites at a shopping mall, then 20 blacks at a shopping mall. And i thought this site would be a PERFECT place to run the survey also, and the results are great!

Grumpy / Luck - Wow, your responses are the best if have yet to receive!! special thanks to you 2!! :)

Ok, just a few questions. Bunch of Communists/Socialists, how do you guys feel about Fascism and what do you think the differences are?

Not a single Dictatorship/Monarchy...Why? A Monarchy is the fastest way to get things done. Also they can work to make things better for the future and not have to worry about their popularity(getting voted again). Iraq is a TERRIBLE example of a Dictatorship/Monarchy....look at the UK, they have the lowest cirme rate, lowest cases of murder, lowest number of shootings and the list goes on and on of ANY first world country in the world!

Bunch of Republic believers...first, do you believe in a more socialist or capitalist economy? Do you think its right that only the rich and upper class will ever have a chance to represent the people? Are you ok with the fact this this is the longest possible way to settle issues that have outcomes which may or may not be for the greater good of the entire country?

A lot of you simply dismiss Anarchy...Why? If its 4am and your going to work, no cars or people around for miles, u hit a damn red light, now i know most of you are gonna say "hell yea id run it"...but would you really? 90+% of people WOULD NOT. This goes to show that human nature is naturally good. People in general and law abiding citizens and dont need daddy looking over their shoulder to do the right thing! This is the foundation on Anarchy. An Anarchist believes in people, that they are naturally good, thats they will give eachother the shirt off their back in necessary. And in a Small to medium sized society(which is where i would like to live) this is EXACTLY the system I would choose!

So lets here what u guys have to say on these questions, and again THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!! :)

Oh and BTW, as liberal i am, Arnarld truly is doing great things with our state :)

Whoops...forgot about Direct Democracy, How do you guys feel about the minorities getting crushed? And in an annomious vote, everyone is going to vote for whats better for them selves, not for improving their community and so on...how do you feel about this?

[manu43]

Hard to choose......I think communism may work if people wants too.What if the real comunist make a country or something apart and have a try.But i think it very hard with todays economic system.
I think ,nowadays,the best is democracy,but it can become in something awful if people are dumb and ignorant.

[iNCQRiT]

A lot of you simply dismiss Anarchy...Why? If its 4am and your going to work, no cars or people around for miles, u hit a damn red light, now i know most of you are gonna say "hell yea id run it"...but would you really? 90+% of people WOULD NOT. This goes to show that human nature is naturally good. People in general and law abiding citizens and dont need daddy looking over their shoulder to do the right thing! This is the foundation on Anarchy. An Anarchist believes in people, that they are naturally good, thats they will give eachother the shirt off their back in necessary. And in a Small to medium sized society(which is where i would like to live) this is EXACTLY the system I would choose!
Iraq in war was an example of anarchy. Everyone looted everything. It would really be an ideal goverment... :dead: ;)

[snowcatxx87]

Reckless, it was a scarcasm comment not to be taken seriously. It was comment I found to be amusing when I thought about it really happening in life... :)

[Reckles Youth]

iNCQRiT - There is a HUGE difference between Anarchy and CHAOS....youve got the two confused. What the news tells you isnt always right ;)

[iNCQRiT]

iNCQRiT - There is a HUGE difference between Anarchy and CHAOS....youve got the two confused. What the news tells you isnt always right ;)
Don't you think if there is no Goverment/Police/Army/etc Anarchy would lead to chaos? :confused: I agree there should be very little goverment interference into daily life, but NO goverment is going too far I think.
It would be a very interesting place for organized crime don't you think? I mean noone would stand in their way.

[confusion]

republic all the way every1 has choice

[GrumpySpyGuy]

VietFrost: San Diego

Your Welcome Reckless, Glad I could help... And since this was a real discussion (Better than the other crap that is spewed on here) I decided to go all out.

Since I chose to a Republican Government I will respond to that:

first, do you believe in a more socialist or capitalist economy? Do you think its right that only the rich and upper class will ever have a chance to represent the people? Are you ok with the fact this this is the longest possible way to settle issues that have outcomes which may or may not be for the greater good of the entire country?

Capitalist... It not only helps the producer, but the country aswell. Secondly, I hate to say it but those with money have the first had to education, education = power, power gives you the ability to aid or destroy the government, depending on the way in which the power is used.

[coffeenub]

i agree to whoever said something about communism being the best.
People getting greedy and power hungy is the ultimate fail of communism, but in reality, communism is the best...but only on paper.

[GrumpySpyGuy]

Care to back that up with anything?

[snowcatxx87]

He did. With what I said earlier.

[luck777jojo]

a society where the beings all work for the common good, where neither one of the beings wishes to be "in power". That is basically what communism is, there is no supreem ruller, everyone does what they are best at and everyone does it to their best ability, everyone is praised for whatever job they do, be it garbage man or chemist, because every job is equaly important for the whole, just like we would not advance without scientists doing their work, we would also suffer if the garbage is not picked up regularly.

With time and advances in technology it will be easier for people to do their job and thus the living standards will constantly be rising, no servants will be needed as technology would eventyallu make that obselete.

For communism to suceed you need the full cooperation and hard work of society, no corruption, and a pretty high level of technology.

Basically you can compare it to perfect H2O..... when it is perectly clean and pure any little spec of dust or dirst will make it look dirty.
All the other systems are not completely pure and thus all the dirt and dust is not as noticible in them as it is in pure clean H2O ;)

[PAS3I2]

whoa whoa whoa. Great Britain is not a monarchy... its a repulic legistlated by a bicameral parliamentary system.

iraq is not a dictatorship anymore...it WAS

monarchy was the first form of government as it worked the best and quickest for smaller groups. if led right, monarchys with elected officials would work.

communism never works though because of human nature, IMO its not possible

[arnold991]

I too have studied about different form of goverentment...the best and true I found in the Preamble of Indian Constituion....The words used are very true,honest and considering all peoples of country...

Link to Preamble of Indian Constitution

http://164.100.10.12/coiweb/coifiles/preamble.htm

I believe in SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC form of government

[thelastride]

i think Democratic is better