Why cheat, eh?

[Ondskan]

Sup guys. Been browsing the boards for some time now and didn't really find a better forum to put this in. I thought about "anti-cheat programs" but I didn't want to spoil the technical discussions there.


So look, it's not that I have something against you personally nor that I object to cheats all together. Certain modifications are almost positive, as long as everyone can get ahold of them easy.

But take this for example. I was playing some Generals yesterday and this ass was cheating with Maphack, he furthermore started to build Superweapons (like Nukes and stuff) even though he as a host said those were forbidden. I still beat the guy and instead of saying "aff, **** it you deserve it" or something he forces a missmatch before he dies. (Making the game crash and none of us get any + or - in rank).

Now this is rare, usually you'd loose against an even below average skilled cheater but I just don't understand how a person like that thinks. Do you/he have so bad confidence that you can't deal with a loss?

And honestly, the worst thing about cheating ain't even that you run into a cheater once in a while. The worst thing is that gamecompanies then build crap like Punkbuster which for example blocked me from Battlefield 2 for 3 months with some stupid error until I figured out how to fix it.

Most people come to games to change their reality for a moment, experience something they otherwise wouldn't and do so on equal terms with others. (Usually it ain't equal terms like Iraqi Insurgents VS US military or some fat kid vs some athlete in sports). Why ruin that experience for everyone?

Can't you just have "cheat" servers were everyone compete to have the most effective cheat or something? What's the point of gaining an advantage over someone in a game where the point is to fight or race and beat that guy with your own skills?

In my example the guy of course took it to a level that I can't understand.
I can understand wanting to have an edge, I can even understand being a douche and wanting to ruin other peoples experience (seems to be a "thing" nowadays within certain nerd circles) but not to be able to take that "loss" even when you cheated...that I can't even "get". That's just weak...


So you guys, what opinions do you have of all of this, why do you do it?

Cheers!

[charlie]

tl;dr

[Ondskan]

The short version is the title.

[J]

I don't cheat anymore. Well actually I don't game anymore, but when I did I only really cheated in Counter-Strike: Source. Honestly I can't recall the exact reason I started cheating. I think I started cheating because when you die in CSS you have to wait until the next round to play again. I wanted to keep playing.

[scruie]

^^ Same here, don't cheat and don't game. Think I started cheating because I work for a living and don't have all day to learn to play a PC game just so some 12 yr old hairless scrotum can sling 'l33t' speak insults at me.

Honestly, it was so much easier before the advent of the internet; if some 12 year old nuisance hounded you, you'd have the right to lightly pummel them with your walking stick, before informing the police officer(s) that these young hooligans had insulted you. Then sit back as the police clipped them round the head before making you a nice cup of sweet tea for the shock.

[Ondskan]

Well I see alot of 12 year old hairless ****s around this forum begging for cheats so they can throw "l33t" insults on the rest of us who don't cheat to.

But that's beyond the point.

Why play the game if you're not up for the challenge?
Like sometimes in the past I would cheat in Singleplayer games when I was stuck. But then I just felt it was a waste of time playing at all. So nowdays, when I've reaached a stop I usually put the game away and don't play it for 6 months. Then when i'm bored, sick or just want to try it again I put the disc back in and often I manage to do it.


The only times I still enjoy cheating is for the challenge itself. Like avoiding detection in mmorpgs, creating complex botting manouvers and trying out stuff. But even that's rare. Cheating to get an advantage just seems boring to me.

If I had cheats to every game I play I'd probably try it once or twice for the fun of it and then uninstall the stuff.

[menc9re]

Cheating started to me from an will to try it, i loved how i can cause rage on people who take the gaming too seriously and start throwing killing threats on you etc. hilarious crap, later i realized how fun it is to do "legit hacking" and for the past +2 years cheating has been interesting for me due to the fact that i develop cheats and at same time learn how game engines work etc. It's just so much more interesting than actually playing those games i hack

[Ondskan]

Isn't cheating on the web a legit reason to "rage?". I mean if someone cheated in a football match or something people don't just rage, they often go and slam the persons face in the wall or something.

A bit over the top, true. But I don't understand that whole thing of being totaly emotionless on the web. Like if a guy keeps getting WH:ed in Counterstrike all the time, ofcourse he gets pissed. Why do you find normal human reactions awkward?

Now I personally don't give a shit, but I find that to be more weird. I should be getting pissed, I just don't.


Actually this is bordering to an other topic but the web is kinda sick, isn't it?
Like you're not supposed to get outraged because someone publishes private pictures of his girlfriend crying over her dead dog or something. You should just understand the lulz within that event. It's really sick if you think about it.
Like if this guy killed that dog for her being a whore and then filmed her. Not sure if this really has happend, it probably has, but you get my point.




(TL DR version


Why is it amusing to see people pissed? And even if it is (**** it, it is) is it morally justifiable to make people pissed for no reason other than your personal satisfaction if the way you get them pissed is by merely ruining things for them?



And yeah, I agree with you, hacking stuff is alot more fun than actually using the hacks (most of the time - not always)

[wcbrilman]

I started cheating for the sole purpose of cheating: having advantages over other players. I got bored of playing the game the way it was supposed to be played: it took me too long to gain points, get achievements, etc. I decided I'd reach my goal way faster by cheating, even though that would eventually take away the challenge that lies in the game.

Do you/he have so bad confidence that you can't deal with a loss?

Pretty much all games are about "owning" an opponent: winning. And hey, human nature: why try hard when you can achieve the same goal with ease by cheating? It has got nothing to do with not wanting to deal with a loss: it is about wanting to win.

Speaking for myself, I never intended to ruin any gaming experience of my fellow gamers, I just used cheats to reach a certain goal - faster than most other users could, because I couldn't bring up the patience. There already are cheat servers, but these usually don't allow you to advance to your goal: which makes cheating useless, as it is not about showing off at all.

[...]and wanting to ruin other peoples experience[...]

Na-ah.

(seems to be a "thing" nowadays within certain nerd circles) but not to be able to take that "loss" even when you cheated...that I can't even "get". That's just weak...

You're generalizing cheaters way too much here. Not being able to take a loss is an aspect of a certain group of gamers in general. I've seen legit players as well as cheaters freak the **** out about the most irrelevant issues.

Why is it amusing to see people pissed? And even if it is (**** it, it is) is it morally justifiable to make people pissed for no reason other than your personal satisfaction if the way you get them pissed is by merely ruining things for them?

It could be amusing to feel you're having power over someone for some. Hey: you're anonymous, not even in real life, and yet someone freaks the hell out. That's, yes, funny to some. It appears they can't stand not being in control.

But yea, your thread in the off-topic section surely proved how mature you are (it seems a cheater pissed you off - yay, you too, fine sir, seem take gaming on the internet a tad too seriously) and how you got nothing against cheaters, against 'us' (ugh, I hate speaking as if I'm part of a collective). I wonder who's more lame.

[Ondskan]

I started cheating for the sole purpose of cheating: having advantages over other players. I got bored of playing the game the way it was supposed to be played: it took me too long to gain points, get achievements, etc. I decided I'd reach my goal way faster by cheating, even though that would eventually take away the challenge that lies in the game.

Now don't get angry at me or whine. I'm not angry at you, I just think you're lame. Now cheating overall I dislike, but it's not lame in the same way as not being able to take a loss or wanting to show off/get achievements.

Achievements for me are there for unimaginative no-lifers* who have to show of. I never got the point of this, especially like you say yourself: In a virtual realm. If the "virtual" stuff isn't supposed to matter then you aren't supposed to care that much about winning and especially about achievements. But you do, thus the paradox.

*no-lifer: Not the best word to describe it, I know achievement whores who have a great life. But I don't really consider chasing achievements online as a worthy cause in life. Especially not if you then do it by cheating - cause then it really lacks any purpose at all - except showing off about the virtual reality that isn't supposed to matter.

It appears they can't stand not being in control.

*Warning general Assumption*
But don't you see the irony here? You're actually very little different from that 12 year old hyperactive puby-kid who can't stand not being in control neither. You've just discovered the marvels of cheating. *Warning general Assumption*



And about that other post, nah. I just wanted to flame the forum overall a bit. Kinda sick to my stomache see a place like the internet that's supposed to be full of free speech get self-censored so much. You guys actually did me a big favor, I didn't know about hacks of Steam before reading the thread which said discussion of them wasn't allowed.

I'd love to find a good place to discuss them and learn more about them since I hate steam as it's a laggy piece of shit software. But when I couldn't do that in a place that modifies copyrighted code then I just felt sad

But seriously though a BIG thanks for informing me about them. No satire intended.
Also I hope I didn't say that I don't have anything against cheaters. I do dislike them/you.
But I far more dislike the effects cheating has upon gaming and the shit Punkbuster has done to the value of my products and the enjoyment of them. Overall I didn't come here to whine but hear why you cheat and see if you can justify it. I think some have by claiming they do it for the mere fun of hacking stuff and I understand the fun in seeing people pissed of. I Just don't think it's valid to claim that they shouldn't be getting pissed.

It's like Terrorism: Terrorists kill less people than governments or bathtubs. But cause of them we have to live under CCTV in the big cities now. Now the later thing is a far bigger problem than the terrorists themselves.

[straying]

I dunno, I'm just really lazy and I don't feel like waiting to get the newest gear and stuff. I know it takes away the challenge, but to me, that's not really a big deal. e-peen growth is srs bsns.

[Choco-Chips]

Meh, I cheat in TF2 because the game is boring. I have well over 900 hours total in the game, with 400 of those as Sniper. It just got boring and I realized when people are good others get pissed. Generally those who get pissed off to easily (who take the game WAY too seriously) turn in to internet tough guys which are always hilarious to **** with. So my goal is to not get more points or piss people off, it's that end result of internet tough guy I aim for.

[Ondskan]

Meh, I cheat in TF2 because the game is boring. I have well over 900 hours total in the game, with 400 of those as Sniper. It just got boring and I realized when people are good others get pissed. Generally those who get pissed off to easily (who take the game WAY too seriously) turn in to internet tough guys which are always hilarious to **** with. So my goal is to not get more points or piss people off, it's that end result of internet tough guy I aim for.

Well it's a normal human reaction to get pissed and tell someone to **** off when this person breaks the norm and the common set rules.

But yeah, the people who then go on telling they will kill your family , hack your computer, ruin your life and so on are kinda funny.

[JC42084]

If anti-cheats didnt exist I would still cheat simply because its so much less effort, I can be lazy, lean back, eat food and still do well. But with VAC/PB the risk isnt worth the reward so I haven't cheated in a couple years. I used to play in CAL-m, and very briefly, in CAL-i in CS 1.6 so if i sit up straight and focus, I can do just fine. I consider myself an above average skill player in most games, having been moderately successful in FPS competition and RPG competition (3 season gladiator when I played WoW). Without cheats I can still dominate or at least do very well. Not going to risk getting my steam account with like $400 of games on it VAC'd, or getting punkbuster banned.

[Šěžăbĭ]

I began cheating on the other types of games - MMOs. I rode an article about MapleStory (one of the biggest mistakes of my life, i admit it), like the looks and started to play it. After a few weeks it got so boring, that i seeked for a way to grind automated. Because of this and a quick google search i stumbled upon CEF and MPC, downloaded a CT, ticked the scripts in it and began to "hack". Soon enough i got interested in how does these scripts work and so on and i continued hanging around until today. So i cheat for the pure purpose of learning something. Usually i don't bot on games even when there are godly hacks around, since its just boring and pointless.
Laughing at others is your way to show you can something they don't (though in most cases the show-offer can't do it himself too and has just leeched it from some forum). You can laugh at them because of this. They can laugh at you because they can something else you can't. But when you cheat (especially with your self made cheats) you feel like you're better than the rest, you rise your head proudly.


tl;dr: its fun and you learn something new.
Sorry for the crappy text there, i just threw out a bunch of my thoughts and they landed here.